Sewage back-up: Is this possible, and if so, how/why it happened and how could we prevent it from reoccurring?
1. We moved into a brand new house last December. Five days after our moving in, we had a sewage back-up, which caused approximately a 300 sq. ft. area in our basement to be covered with human waste, toilet paper, etc. By the time the plumber came out about 24 hours after the initial discovery, the water had receded on its own, and upon observation (i.e., no scoping, Roto-Rooting, etc.), the plumber informed us that it must have been that one of our kids flushed something down the toilet that should not have been. By the way, during the pre-walk throgh about two weeks prior to our moving in, we had found a big, big poo-mess in a upstairs bathroom, probably left by a construction worker not wanting to walk to a porta-potty in the frigid Chicago winter. There was no toilet paper present in the house at this time (I specifically remember because one of my own children started saying that she had to go during the process, I frantically looked for toilet paper, there was none, and we had to drive over to a model home) but plenty of industrial-type (i.e., brown, hard) paper towels there.
2. One week ago (Nov. 6), we had another sewage back-up, and this time, we had approximately 600 sq. ft. of space in the basement covered in raw sewage.
3. About 12 hours later, the plumber:
1) scoped to approximately 100 ft. from the clean out, located in the basement. He was not able to find anything that was blocking the flow but was able to see water standing inside the pipe starting at this point.
2) also Roto-Rooted to 100 ft. or so. He was not able to get anything out.
He was not able to resolve the problem and determined that he needed a longer cable for the Roto-Rooter, as well as the camera.
4. When another plumber from the same company came three days later, we had not used any water, and the water had gone down on its own (dried human waste and toilet paper remained on the basement floor, however). He:
1) Rot-Rooted to approximately 120 ft. from the clean-out. He was able to recover a wad of what looked like to him paper towels about the size of a computer mouse ( … where did they come from???). He also informed me that based upon the drawing, this (120 ft. away from the house) is just about where our sewer line connects to the main sewer.
2) For reasons yet to be found out, he did not bring a camera with him.
3) The plumbers also informed me that the further it gets from the house, the larger the width of the pipe that is used (i.e., 2 in. – 4 in. – 6 in. – and then 10-in. for the main).
—My main question is how/why would a blockage occur at 120 ft. away from the house especially if 4. 3) above is the case? As a layperson, my thinking is that if something is not going to get stuck inside a 2-in.-wide pipe, then it is not going to get stuck inside a 6-in.-wide pipe 120 ft. downstream, so to speak. Also, is it feasible to think that some sort of build-up could be created with normal use? Once again, as a layperson, I cannot think of a reason as to why that would happen, unless the slope was not steep enough? We just want to find out what is causing these back-ups, and what we can to prevent them from ever happening again. THANK YOU AGAIN FOR READING!
Two details that were left out in the previous post:
1. The first time this happened, we had a bunch of snow melt. The second time, it had rained all day.
2. We have also noticed bubbles coming up to the surface in the toilets (most noticeable in the downstairs toilet).
THANK YOU!
Update: The plumber now thinks that the situation is being caused by a broken sewer line.
Bucket and chuckit. Preferably away from the house
Sewage pipe: 1 drop per 100 feet run! Steeper than that and water ‘runs away from waste leaving it high and dry! Sounds as if someone somewhere has used hand towel paper and flushed, it didn’t move fast enough and is now stuck in the pipe. I have no idea what your plumber told you, but you have 4 pipe to the main line, and that pipe sounds as if there is a wad of crap near the main line. I have no idea why your line was not snaked to the main, as it should have been in the first place. My suggestion is… flush your toilets …all of them over and over…there is no one else’s sewage hooked to your exit line (by code, at any rate)…this will give a washing effect to the line, and if the line is not carrying as it should, at least the water that comes back up will not have the mess in it that you have experienced. The good news is (could there be good news here?) the waste you are getting everywhere is from your own house. The only way other house’s waste could come up in yours is the main is far too shallow, it is plugged (partially), and you are the low man on the totem pole. IF this happens again, I would have the city out to examine the sewage system…AND, if a plumber is called again, make sure the drain line is snaked TO THE MAIN LINE! You are being charged for insufficient work. Good luck, Goldwing
The storm water ( rainfall from the city streets) and waste water ( the drain lines from your house—and all the other houses in your neighborhood ) all go into the same city sewer pipe in the street. If there is too much at once then the sewers back up into the houses. When the storm is over they recede back down the drain.
You need to put in Stand Papes in your basement. They are 2 inch pipes about 36 inches long attached to your floor drains.
Its the only safe thing that works.
you can by a check valve so when it backs up the valve closes you should get one.
What a wonderful graphic gescription of a problem. I deduced from your question that you live in the USA. Well I live in the UK and just to let you know you are not alone here. We get the Sewer-surge too, but only when we get prolonged rain say 2/3 days. What happens here is that a lot of Surface water enters the sewer, so much so that the pipes cannot take it, the pump station cannot pump it fast enough, so we get a Back-up. This in turn back-fills the local manholes, and so the sewage continues to back up the smaller pipes. when you hear the gurgling in the pan, or the bath/tub then do not flush the toilet. When the rain stops the problem resolves itself. Normal mis-use only creates local blockage or partial blockage. I agree with your doubts on the statements made by the plumber re the varying size of the pipes extending to the mains, absolute rubbish. Here in Britain, the pipework from the house to the main drain is 4 no matter how distant, without problems because the regulation falls. .which are, for every 100ft run, you must have a fall of 1foot, to maintain a clean pipe. I hope this helps you with your nasty problem.
I think it is clear that without TP someone used papertowels and flushed them. They clogged the pipe. Then it rained/snow melt and the water backed whatever was in your line and maybe a gift from the main line into your basement.
I live in a city and the lines are 4 internally and 6 to the street but a line of over 100′ is unheard of here. A line that long has lots of places for snags. Debris will catch at snags which are especially found at junction points. It would have been helpful to know if the junction point to the main line was problematic. A scope would have told you this.
You have bubbles because you have pressure in the lines. There isn’t suppose to be any. Will it happen again? Yes.
Your options? 1. Talk to the town engineer.
2. It would be best if you come armed with an engineering report. This will cost you and the amount depends upon the testing/exploration required. If the line is scoped out again make sure you get a tape of what the scope sees for later review.
3. The sanitary engineer you hire should suggest alternatives.
a. One engineering alternative is to pump all of your waste water and seal your gravity drain system. This may have failure problems but you would never get someone elses business.
b. Check valves in sewer lines do not work well. When debris gets caught in them they will not close. A gate valve will work, but if it is manually controlled someone will have to man it at the right time.
c. the town will have to re-engineer the main sewer lines. Law suits are sure to be involved. Lawyers will get rich clients will have to compromise.
Skip all of this and move out suing the people who sold you the house. You will still need an engineer but your lawyer might hire him.
Flushing your lines as mentioned above is good. I would suggest you add in a full tub or so as well. Furthermore I would suggest you make sure this is done before any major rainstorm or once a month… but this still won’t prevent the main sewer from backing up into your house. Just what comes out first will be cleaner.
As an aside for clean ups I use several bottles of bleach while there is still water on the basement floor. (keeps things healthier.) Before it is all completely subsided or afterwards rehydrate and use a wet/ dry vac set for wet pickup.
EDIT:
For my money the plumber who thinks it is a broken sewer line would have to answer the question of why, when it rains or there is snow melt, you get a sewer back up? While a broken sewer line will be the snag that I mentioned earlier by itself it will not explain the sewer backing up under those conditions. The only explaination is the unlikely one that you don’t want to hear… that there is a problem with the mains. You may ALSO have a broken sewer line but only a blockage in the main line in the street (with all the same causes) will effect your system in this way. (With the one exception of your also having storm runoff or roof drains going into your sewer line. [This is currently illegal in my area and requires a separate drywell to avoid exactly this kind of problem.])
If papertowels will make it through the toilet then it will definetly make it the rest of the way to the tap unless there is an obstruction along the way. The problem is likely at the conection from your main line to the city sewer tap. This connection is usually made with a ruber boot(also known as a fernco coupling )and is the first place that tree roots penetrate a line. occasional stop ups are consistent with tree root invasion and water will slowly pass through. Call a plumber that has a camera long enough to see the problem for sure.